I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, ‘fair game’. I covered this in my previous post, ‘When Is a Church Member ‘Fair Game‘, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members.
I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. It’s extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it.
Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of ‘community groups’ at Watermark Church works. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, ‘The Porch’, which she enjoys. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you can’t have one without the other. If you aren’t a covenant member at Watermark Church, you can’t join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts.
Membership at Watermark Church
Watermark Church’s membership process first requires that you sign the membership covenant, which oddly enough, you can do online. Once you’ve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. This process is called ‘Community Formation‘ (formerly GroupLink).
Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. That is only for the married folk. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church.
Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit & the Karen Hinkley story.)
It's Not Just Your Regular Sunday School Class....
When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. It was a class before the main church service where people around the same age as you sat in a room, listened to a bible lesson, maybe interacted a bit, shared prayer requests, took up a small offering, held hands and said a closing prayer. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school.
According to Watermark Church, I guess we weren’t doing it right…
Community groups are the epicenter of Watermark Church. It’s how relationships are formed and accountability is established – or that’s what they want you to think. In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. ‘Being your authentic self in community with others‘ is the goal, they say. What does being your ‘authentic self’ really mean, in the context of community groups? Confession, of course! One of the ‘core values’ of the community groups is ‘Live Authentically‘, which they define as “being completely honest with one another…this means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically.” This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group.
At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate.
How Leah Remini's Show Helped this Former Watermark Member Leave The Church
When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, “I am not the only former ‘Watermarker’ out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.“
Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. I asked Susan if she wouldn’t mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. I have edited some of her answers for content and length.
If It Walks Like a Duck......
On the April 8, 2019 episode of WordsfromWags, a website that features videos from Watermark Church senior pastor Todd Wagner addressing various issues, the topic of the day was ‘Is Watermark Church a Cult? ‘In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in ‘best cults in Dallas’ and Watermark Church was #1 on the list.
I don’t know folks….if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult…..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke!
I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. He first goes into the definition of the word cult – which in latin is the word ‘cultus‘, defined as ‘to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate‘. He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a ‘Jesus-cult’ and how is that a bad thing?
I see what you did there!
Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish:
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26
Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded ‘cultish’. Gotcha.
Third, Todd said Christians should live their lives in a way that looks radical or extreme to other people, and Watermark is the best at it, because most churches aren’t very radical!
So in summary, Watermark isn’t a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if that’s what a cult is, oh well, I guess we’re a Jesus cult!
He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were:
- A human making a grab for power
- Sexual exploitation
- Leaders trying to drain members in order to live exorbitant lives
I’m going to address #3, because I did my own Google search – of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas.
Another Story To Tell
In my next post I’ll share another story from another former-Watermark member. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. I’ll also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive.
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[…] Watermark Church is a megachurch in Dallas, Texas. Founding pastor Todd Wagner resigned in April 2021 after confessing to a sin of “pride.” No Eden Elsewhere wrote a blog post about Watermark in 2019 titled, “The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members.” […]
This is such lying BS, you people are pathetic really.
Still reeling from my experience of being a WM member..which I ended in 2016. Have been warning peeps from this cult ever since. If you’re a sinner and you know you are—- stay away.
I promise I’m not trolling y’all. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages that”Susan” speaks of. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit “if you’re not comfortable giving here that’s ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. If you’d like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church we’ll gladly help you.” They don’t even take a collection in church! My challenge to “Susan” is to give citations for the quotes she gives. Considering that… Read more »
Dave – It is disingenuous to minimize someone else’s experience just because you did not witness it yourself. Just because you have never been abused in the way these people have, does not negate that they were. To demand that a victim produce ‘evidence’ is a form of revictimization. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasn’t said – and that what she was asked to do, wasn’t asked of her. For every story that I… Read more »
If you got the impression I was disingenuous or was minimizing someone’s hurt please forgive me.
I take at face value “Susan” has hurt and I feel compassion for her.
I merely want to get the facts out on the table.
If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Help me to understand. What do you mean exactly by “re-victimization”.
“Dismiss the abuse of others” how did you come to that conclusion?
Seems like there’s a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. If you don’t want to share your story you don’t have to. If you don’t want to share about your finances you don’t have to. Not every word from a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering that they are imperfect humans and will admit it. Not to mention that even if the words are perfect it’s up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. If you don’t want to be a member at Watermark you don’t have to be.… Read more »
There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. Spiritual authority is the result of God’s power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. Spiritual authority influences others toward God’s purposes. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. And this is important. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry at… Read more »
I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their ‘ morality’ assessment and they decide you have a ‘pride’ issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. They’re not only going to write you off but they’ll make sure your entire community group does too.… Read more »
[…] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them […]
Did anyone see this Sunday’s Sermon? I don’t know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. This would be Cabo and in the middle of the worst weather tragedies that Dallas has seen in decades. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? I was one of the cold ones! Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then he… Read more »
As you should be. There are many issues at Watermark.
I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. You can see it on their instagram!
Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. If your Parents were not rich and someone. Todd could use he had no use for you. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. Todd loves and worships money and attention. Todd uses God to accomplish his goals of… Read more »
We briefly visited WM; I quickly told my husband, “this place is the cult of Todd and will implode without him.” That’s not Todd’s fault, but no thanks. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. It’s a huge red flag to me about Todd’s character and understanding of God. Then there is the whole Lake… Read more »
This church sounds exhausting and prideful. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon.
There are 2 Todd Wagner’s in Dallas. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. He’s not the pastor of Watermark. I’m not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. And some community groups are less intense. Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesn’t mean the group has to follow the rules. At least that was my experience… Read more »
The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. I verified it. According to the membership covenant, a member is not ‘free to leave’ the church, but must formally withdraw membership under one of three acceptable circumstances: 1. Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. It is not as simple as ‘walking away’. If a member doesn’t leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. THAT is what these people are afraid of. If… Read more »
Adding to – people in good standing who have zero knowledge of any discipline issues also fear leaving due to verifiable stories where watermark members have harassed and stalked people for leaving – in cases where the person leaving has come to realize the place at its core is Not what is represented on its surface and middle layers. The initial corporate fraud is in fact the membership agreement itself. It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. Yet it turns out they are getting people to… Read more »
Sounds like Gaslighting.
Hi to all, I’ve been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. I don’t mean to discredit anyone’s experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. I can… Read more »
I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. He counseled my former fiancée and after several meetings with him my fiancée broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. Now he confesses to sin himself , sin of… Read more »
I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible Church. Our daughters went to the same grade school and were on the same soccer team. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. He walked with an air of superiority that was disgusting. He had no recollection of ever having seen or met you before because he was so self absorbed. When I watched his “stepping back”/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. He can be only the center of… Read more »
It is a long process to leave unless you just don’t fill out the yearly form. If you don’t fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet.
There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues.
Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. Where are you getting this information? I’ve been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. I’m happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information.
Tim – The information is on Watermark Church’s website: “ Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.”. https://www.watermark.org/about/governance
Just because you haven’t personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didn’t happen to someone else. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. I’ve spoken to these people and I believe them.
How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? Genuine question
You can’t. I’ve heard a LOT of questionable things about Watermark, and don’t agree, spiritually, with my friends that are WC members. They are some of my least favorite friends, if that makes sense. But to equate WC with Scientology is absurd. If you want to leave, then leave. I live in HP, and we laugh at WC people. People are NOT going to negatively treat people who leave WC. The ‘discipline’ is likely something that stays in your file such that if you re-join, you’ve got some wood to chop to have membership reinstated. Who gives a shit –… Read more »
The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. Todd raised 6 kids there and has never take a big salary. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didn’t take them. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that have… Read more »
Pdiddy – The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. It’s inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. He could have sold the house when it was ‘gifted’ to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. Watermark has a leadership problem… Read more »
Watermark is very transparent about finances. It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. Every argument you put forth seems to be based on your subjective opinion based on your speculation, assumption, and judgement.. Watermark encourages people to confess their sins to one another and to admonish faithfully but that’s because that’s what the Bible tells us to do as believers.. The woman’s story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We are… Read more »
How do you know Todd pays that? Have you heard of Life Water? The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously?
At the beginning of each year our membership goes to zero. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member
[…] a great example of unsafe “community groups” which verge on cults. (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far […]
CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members – Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. Take Your Power Back – we all know many invested their heart and lives into this place, only to be punished and abused when their performance was not up to the public image WM wanted society to perceive of their organization. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was Conditional… Read more »
I don’t want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. Can’t even begin to address this without feeling a sense of disappointment. Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. The level of absurdity is a bit high here… I’m a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to make… Read more »
Izael, Thank you for your comment. Just because you have not experienced or witnessed the things that happened to the person who told their story that I featured in this post, does not mean those things did not happen. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours.
I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members.
Izael – who are you to judge someone else’s experience? My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. I have never met so many people using the term ‘spiritual abuse’ as… Read more »
“Concern”, Who are you to judge!? You are way off base
Psychological warfare Is a good name for it.
While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. The Bible says in Hebrews 4:13, “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, “For God will bring every deed… Read more »
I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? Having community is not the issue – it’s how Watermark DEFINES community. If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships – then great. If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family – then no,… Read more »
Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. that would be a better fit. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. I have nothing to hide, and sharing… Read more »
As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. It definitely wasn’t the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). We didn’t share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. As the CG leader, I went first. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. There was one guy that didn’t want to share… Read more »
Amen
I’m thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. It’s all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there.
Yes” WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there“ = works
I was there when Billy Weber fell at Prestonwood Baptist in 1988. All of these pastors have one thing in common. Hubris brought on by badly managed mega-prosperity. The devil is more deceptive than we can ever know. Only drawing near ourselves daily to Jesus can we endure. I was at NW Bible when Todd was the singles pastor in the 90s. There was a very ungodly conflict in those days. It took a few years before a new pastor was chosen. That pastor is still there … still humble before God and was the right man to lead that… Read more »
Let me guess…the PASTORS of this church DONT have to be “real” and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles…….right???? Just the congregation……hmmmmmm…..
Incorrect. I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids.
It is very helpful and let’s us plan financially well
We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. He began to consider that he was in a cult. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the group’s permission.
This is a great post, Anna
This is a quality and important post. Thanks to you for writing and Susan for sharing. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any I’ve filled out. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. If you’re short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,… Read more »
The Yelp algorithm is strange. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isn’t listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and it’s nowhere near a cult.
<blockquote>Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and it’s nowhere near a cult.</blockquote>
Oh, I wouldn’t be so sure of that. Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood.
I am a CFP® and I don’t see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someone’s life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. Not to “gotcha”, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesn’t make it unrealistic that Todd’s family was gifted that house. Having said that,… Read more »
Just checking out the church and looking at the background info – the house has tripled in value since the Wagner’s bought it 20 years ago – hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons.
He didn’t even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. It’s ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didn’t purchase.
Aside from the fact that it was ‘gifted’ to him (alarming at the very least) – it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagner’s part. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor.