“My husband and I are devastated…”
“This has destroyed our relationships with them…”
“Things have gotten worse and worse between us…”
“They refuse to let me see my grandchildren…”
These are the words of desperate and heartbroken parents. What they have in common is that their adult children attend Watermark Church, have joined community groups, and have now alienated themselves from their families.
Some Background
In my previous post The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members , I detailed how Watermark Community Church requires it’s covenant members to submit to very invasive membership requirements. These include:
- Frequent confession/sharing within community group setting
- Sharing financial information with their community group
- Seeking approval for major life decisions from their community group (i.e.; job change, home purchase, etc)
- Members encouraged (i.e.; pressured) to go through Watermark’s ReGeneration recovery program
A lot of this intensive sharing & caring is going on in their ReGeneration program. Many many churches use this, along with the ReEngage (marriage) recovery program. Both were developed at Watermark Community Church. People need to understand how potentially dangerous these programs can be, because they were developed by a church that has a habit of using members’ privately divulged information to spiritually abuse them. (Just like Scientology!). If you haven’t picked up on the theme here, a lot of abusive religious and non-religious movements develop and use a ‘recovery program’ to ensnare people. Once unsuspecting participants get sucked in by having their vulnerabilities exposed, they become dependent on the organization or church.
NXIVM
There is a new documentary on HBO called ‘The Vow‘, about a MLM (cult) called NXIVM. It was started by a guy named Keith Raniere. Keith is now awaiting sentencing in New York State after being convicted of sex-trafficking, forced labor, racketeering and other felonies.
Keith was a brilliant man, and actually patented the ‘rational inquiry method’, which was used by NXIVM to help participants conquer fears & unlock their potential. It’s rumored that he & partner Nancy Salzman cured a few people of Tourette’s. I think a lot of his work could have been groundbreaking had it not been for the fact that he was a sexual predator and took advantage of people’s vulnerabilities.
From a Forbes article: “Detractors say he runs a cult-like program aimed at breaking down his subjects psychologically, separating them from their families and inducting them into a bizarre world of messianic pretensions, idiosyncratic language and ritualistic practices.”
The reason I wanted to reference NXIVM is because every single cult (or cult-like) organization uses the same modis-operandi: create a groundbreaking ‘recovery’ program, encourage people to join the group & participate, then find the vulnerability in a person and exploit it.
“Find freedom from all struggles, including: anxiety/depression, pornography, fear, control, substance abuse, codependency, sexual abuse, same-sex attraction, eating disorders/body image, anger, obsessive thoughts, and any other struggle that has you stuck.”
SOUND FAMILIAR?
Re:Generation promises to help get you UNSTUCK…….just like Scientology, NXIVM and many other recovery programs. While some might think it’s unfair to lump a Christian recovery program into the same category as Scientology or NXIVM, I will expound on this later. I am also not against recovery programs. I believe they are wonderful, when people aren’t being taken advantage of or abused in them.
This program is used in churches NATIONWIDE! Most people probably have no idea where it originated from.
Former Watermark members have told me that Todd Wagner pretty much expects all WM church members to go through Re:Generation recovery. That’s a nice way of getting the goods on all of the church members so it can be used against them later, if needed. Imagine that you have spilled your guts over and over in community group and Re:Gen, then decide Watermark isn’t for you anymore? Well all of those people now know your deepest darkest secrets and you are too afraid to leave. See how that works?
CONFESSION: Years ago my husband and I once went to a Re:Engage meeting (not at Watermark) to see what it was all about. Let me tell you, it seemed really great on the surface. They played a video with testimonies and it was hyped very well. They told us in the next meeting we would break off into groups and that’s where the sharing would begin. We didn’t go back.
Family Alienation
In the last two months I have received emails from two desperate mothers. After their adult children became covenant members of Watermark Community Church, joined a community group and began going through the Re:Generation program, these adult children have essentially cut themselves off from their families. Not just their parents – but their entire extended family.
The story is the same – their son or daughter tells them that after going through Re:Generation recovery, they now realize their parents were abusive and that they no longer desire to have a relationship with them. In one case, this meant grandparents were not permitted to see their grandchildren. They are devastated and heartbroken. Another mother attempted to reconcile with her daughter by agreeing to a ‘reconciliation process’ approved by her daughter’s community group. It failed.
Someone pointed me to the comment section of a Watermark Church video, where ironically, they are defending themselves from being called a ‘cult’. In the comments, another devastated parent detailed their story of alienation from their adult child.
“My experience with Watermark is in much conflict with the things Todd says here. He said they don’t get people in groups and talk only to them, but my son was in one of their community groups, and for 3 years the people in that group listened to his complaints about me. I was never contacted to be able to hear these accusations and they still have not revealed them to me. The staff member of the church, and the members of the group supported my son and his wife in estranging his father and I, and it has now been almost 4 years. His father, my husband was diagnosed with cancer 11 months into the estrangement so there was a little contact during his 18 month survival, but my son would not discuss reconciliation. Also would not discuss reconciliation prior to the cancer when we went to a counselor and asked our son to come also. He refused. After my husband died I called the church to request to work with them on reconciliation. My son and his wife refused. The staff member and community members again supported the estrangement. I only learned of Watermark’s support of the estrangement when I call about reconciliation – so it went on for 3 years or so before I knew. I have offered to come to their church and talk to them, and hopefully with my son also, about reconciliation. However, they will not work with me and require that I have a “spiritual authority” from my church to work with a “spiritual authority” from their church to answer for what I’ve done – which I haven’t been told what I’ve done….Yet I haven’t been told what I need to confess, ask forgiveness etc…..I am a Christian. Have belonged to the same church for 36 years. Watermark listened to my son and wife for 3 years in a community, and supported them in estrangement without our knowledge…..They are very firm on this “spiritual authority” person being involved on my end and their end. They do not advise my son to seek reconciliation. They say that is their desired goal, but they will only work on it with you if it follows their belief in how it should be done……So I feel strongly there are some cult like things here… will only approach reconciliation by their rules…..I’m 70. Have gone to church all my life, and have never been in a church that required this……So yes they only work cooperatively with “their people” – which is contrary to what Todd says in this video that they work with people with other beliefs. He says they are peacemakers – but yet in my situation they will only help with peacemaking if it’s done according this earthly “spiritual authority” they believe you have. They are unbendable on those issues…..They make reconciliation more difficult than God made it for us by giving his son for our reconciliation with God. He says they live as though Jesus is their exalted leader – but requiring an earthly “spiritual authority” does not support that.”
I believe there are abusive parents, and at some point the adult children of these parents make a decision to not have a relationship with them anymore. I am one of those people. That very difficult decision was made after YEARS and YEARS of attempts to reconcile and have a normal healthy relationship with my abusive parent. It was not a knee-jerk reaction in response to the urging of any one person or group of people. It was devastating and gut-wrenching. However, what I am seeing here with these parents is a PATTERN. It’s the same story playing out in every scenario, and I believe that Watermark Church is encouraging family alienation as another way to control it’s members.
If you alienate the members from their families – the family members can’t have an influence in their lives and alert them when something is wrong.
When the Pendulum Swings Wide
My Twitter friend Shannon sent me some information about a church in Eau Claire, Wisconsin called Valleybrook Church. A few years ago, the lead pastor, Doug Lebsack was effectively run off for financial improprieties and cult-like behavior. (read about that here)….but that is not the reason I wanted to mention this.
When Lebsack was pastoring at Valleybrook, he became extremely close to his assistant pastor, Nate Hagedorn. The relationship developed into what Lebsack described as a ‘David & Jonathan’ type closeness, which he expounds upon in this sermon, titled ‘The Knitting‘. I have to warn you, it’s creepy as heck.
What came out of this situation is that Nate Hagedorn agreed to be legally adopted by Doug & Robin Lebsack, and cut off all contact with his biological parents, because he claimed they were abusive. Nate was 32, Lebsack was 49.
Both families left Wisconsin for Texas, but have now appeared to have settled in Broken Arrow, OK, along with Nate’s mother-in-law Jennifer:
Heartbroken Parents
The tragedy in this situation are Nate’s parents, Jody & Bob Hagedorn who have spoken out publicly about the alienation from their son, and why they believe Doug Lebsack has emotionally abused and manipulated him.
And while this is definitely a worse case scenario of family alienation, it is not out of the realm of possibility of happening at Watermark Community Church.
A need for resources
I was asked by one of the mothers who contacted me if there was a support group for parents who are dealing with alienation from their adult children in a church situation. I did not have a single resource to offer them, so I put them in touch with each other so that they can be a source of support for each other. I am so grieved for what they are dealing with, and I hold Watermark Church responsible for causing all of this unnecessary pain and estrangement in these people’s lives.
Suggestions & Warnings
- I will say it here and I will continue to say it – I believe Watermark Community Church is a cult. They may be doctrinally correct in a lot of areas, but their way of doing ‘community’ is invasive, manipulative and abusive.
- Don’t sign up for or attend Re:Generation or Re:Engage. The temptation is strong – I know. These programs have great potential for good, but more potential for harm. You are submitting yourself to a therapeutic process without the benefit of a licensed & trained therapist. You will be asked to divulge private information that NO ONE is legally required to keep confidential (no matter what they say).
- Making a decision to cut off contact with family members should be done ONLY after all attempts to reconcile have been exhausted. It is 100% ok to cut off toxic family members, however, going to a recovery program and having a bunch of people tell you that you were abused by your parents is NOT the same as working through those issues with a licensed therapist. Also do not let a pastor counsel you to cut off contact with your family. That is a HUGE red flag.
- The church you go to is NOT your true family. Sorry, that is just a BS statement they use to control you. They might be great people, etc, etc, but do not let them tell you they are a replacement for your family. That is what cults do.
- Make sure you have friends outside your church. You need people who can speak into your life, that have nothing to do with the church you go to.
I am finding a lot of what is stated in these remarks etc., are certainly existing. My big complaint is as follows: Not majoring on bringing every Thought into captivity to the word of God and Christ thus having the mind of Christ Jesus about issues that come up in our minds etc.! Rather, Watermark tends to push majoring on the struggles, the sin, and methods outside of the word in such a manner that we are constantly thinking about other and all types of sins we may or may not even engage in at all. Pluse in early stages,… Read more »
My husband and I were a part of Valleybrook Church in Eau Claire WI. The damage and destruction caused in both my personal life and in my marriage at the hands of Doug Lebsack was beyond abusive. Overnight the man could destroy the reputation of a person or a family if they were able to see through to the evil he wittingly brought into the church. Many of us did everything we could to stop him from being able to run away and destroy more believers; but sadly the church wanted to move forward with the hopes of healing and… Read more »
ESTRANGEMENT IS TAUGHT IN THE IFB…THEY CALL IT SHUNNING I have never attended Watermark Church. But I am an estranged mother of 2 children and 5 grandkids due to another IFB church in the midwest. The estrangement came about due to parental alienation being practiced on our kids and shunning from the congregation with both being promoted against us by our former pastor from the pulpit in his Sunday sermons. It all started when we told our pastor that we were moving to another state because we felt God was leading us to serve in the ministry in another church… Read more »
Gonna throw this out there as one who went through ReGen and lead 2 groups after completing myself. First, there are a bunch of broken people who are “leaders” in different areas at ReGen. Leaders are reminded that the role is more of facilitation and sharing honestly about one’s own struggles. This role is a choice and the vulnerability is taken on knowingly. I’ve had community groups (CG) where there was a lot of bad advice and even if WM leadership’s advice at times was difficult, it was often spot on but myself or others did not have “ears to… Read more »
All interesting points. What are your thoughts on the ReGen intro video that features a woman who killed herself? I find it very odd to continue to include (read: exploit) her (for at least more than a year) after such an awful tragedy, and it’s especially odd that she simply wasn’t removed or replaced (I work with video editing and for her role, it was a simple and quick edit). I’m also curious about the approach taken to invite new members to try RenGen (which REQUIRES that your purchase their $35+ workbook despite only trying the program). It was communicated… Read more »
I went to Watermark for over 8 years – formed the most amazing bonds with the men in Community Group (was a roommate with one of them for 4 years after we got in Group together). Every member of my CG was in my wedding in some capacity, including my Best Man. I can say I was never told, asked or pressured to attend Re: Generation, but have had several friends who attended, by their own accord, and now profess that it changed their lives, allowed them to confront their sin and pick up the broken pieces (those are all… Read more »
My 34 year old daughter started ReGen 3 years ago. The first year was good, but there have been major red flags the last 8 months. We were so close yet in October she texted me to tell me she wanted a break. Since then she has become more distant. Not responding to my texts or emails begging for us to talk. How do we intervene ?
My daughter
If you haven’t already, I recommend reading “Tales from the Cult” which was written by my son and outlines the abuse at Valleybrook. I thank God my son got out and our relationship was restored.
https://talesfromthecult.wordpress.com/
Thank you for your vigilance in bringing to light the cult activities that continue to divide families. It has been over 7 years since we’ve seen our son or heard his voice. Although we’re delighted to see these photos of our son Nate Hagedorn & his children, we are not thrilled to see him in the same housing development as his perpetrator & wife. Surreal, yet we send love to our son every day envisioning he awake and remember how much we love him and welcome him here with open arms and zero judgment. We send love to all families… Read more »
I’m so glad that you’re bringing this to light. I was a member for under a year and fortunately never got in very deep. I questioned a lot of their practices, particularly the pressure to attend ReGen. As a licensed therapist I felt that it was negligent of the church to retraumatize church members by having them discuss their traumas in such a public format. I saw many friends struggle through the process and come out on the other end worse. It seemed that they were pressured to say that it was life changing. There were other things that concerned… Read more »
The “adoption” story about Valleybrook you mentioned only scratches the surface of what happened there. We attended there for many years before Lebsack. His first few years were really positive and exciting and then things got “different.” You couldn’t put a finger on it as it happened gradually, but one day you look up and the church leaders were suddenly very much involved and in control of peoples’ personal lives, what issues they had, when they were or weren’t “cured”, and how they handled things (divorce, cutting family ties, etc.). We left before it got really bad but the church… Read more »
I was severely abused by this church while I attended. I was told my husband’s affairs were my fault because I didn’t submit. I was told by the community group I wasn’t allowed to get pregnant because they didn’t think I would be a good mom. I was told that I shouldn’t have bought a car without discussing my finances with them first. When I filed for divorce to my husband having affairs with other men, I was kicked out of the church. (I received one of those nasty letters). I wasn’t allowed to go to therapy or take medication… Read more »
You’re already on the calm by leaving the festering boil. Keep praying and trusting God. He sure led you from further destruction. Amen
Thank you for adding to the online resources. And you’re right, there’s a need for more. When I left, my best resources were books, and by far the best is The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by Johnson and Van Vonderen. I like to dropped my teeth when I read this book soon after leaving. #2 is Exposing Spiritual Abuse by Fehlauer. For me, education on abusive church tactics was the big key to my recovery. My list of recommended reading is at the end of this post- https://redflagchurches.blogspot.com/2020/02/are-you-in-red-flag-church.html And there’s cultwatch.com where your information on this group ought to… Read more »
Thank you for your courage in exposing the hidden dangers of this megachurch. I pray that more people would take a closer look at the legalistic membership requirements, peer controled community/counseling groups, and its insidious manipulation of young adults to create dependency on the Church instead of dependency on Jesus Christ.
Even though I didn’t personally attend WM it felt like I did as WM and it’s members strategically placed loyal members in certain areas of the public community. Starting with the public schools with unsuspecting kids they had a captive audience, PTA who designs the programs and teachers who would make sure to personally plug the church or allow kids that attended WM special preference and then our Dallas city councilman for D10 who then turned around and placed members of the church in his own personal council and continuously used his public page to promote WM just as the… Read more »
AMEN! Thank you for bringing light and truth to the surface!